00:00
Hi, welcome to Power of the Network. I'm your host, Tim Locker, Vice President of Broadband here at CBM. It's always a pleasure to highlight our customers on the show, and this week we've got Mr. Chris Hsu, plant operations manager at Green Hills Communications. We're going to talk a little bit about the current status of Bede, what's going on in his world with projects and so on, and how they set themselves apart serving their customers. So let's get into our conversation with Chris.
00:31
Chris, thank you so much for joining us. I'm glad you're able to come down and be in studio with us today. Appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity to have me here. So, know, independent telcos, you they've been the backbone of rural communications, you know, for a long time. What is it that makes Green Hills communications essential to your part of Missouri? So, on our part, you know, we started Telephone Cooperation in 1952 as a group of farmers that got together.
01:00
So they want a telephone service. Since then, we've expanded a little bit. the biggest thing that I think makes us unique is that cooperative mindset. Every interaction we have with a uh customer, we're interacting with our owners. So we have to have that mindset. We have to have the mindset that they... uh
01:27
are our owners and we're going to take care of them no matter what. And with the fast-paced environment, the internet is kind of expanding. We switched over to broadband service and we've kept that same mindset going to where even our C-Lite customers get the benefit of having that cooperative owner-worker relationship, really expanding our oh footprint. I wasn't sure if you guys were a co-op.
01:57
So we are a co-op and we've done a CLEC operation starting in early 2000s. And since then we bought Citizens Telephone Company in Higginsville. Basically doubled our footprint. So is the CLEC side a separate business and not under the co-op? It's a subsidiary. You know, before the deregulation, you know, we kept everything completely separated.
02:26
And then, uh oh, I think 2008, 2009 timeframe when ACAM came out, FCC really deregulated a lot of them lines. Now we use our ILAC uh facilities to support some of our C-LAC networks. And it gave us opportunity to buy citizens and kind of expand and do that. And it's been great for us. mean, we really enjoy serving.
02:56
I think there's a need for it. We try our best to deliver the five nines of service all the time. And having the telephone roots, that's really translated into broadband service that we deliver that I think some of our competitors don't see the value in that. And it sets us apart. I live up in Iowa and I'm uh in the Huxley Telephone Exchange. uh
03:25
co-op as well. So uh I fully understand that mindset uh in terms of taking care of the customers. They're frankly your owners. Similar to our company, we're an employee-owned company. So uh it's a little bit more internal, but we kind of have that same mindset. And that's why I think citizens fit into our environment as well as they did. They were in this, and we purchased them.
03:55
Everybody wants to deliver the best service we can. think having that from the get-go, having that mindset really helps our operations just hum right along. Yeah. And frankly, from just a broadband provider perspective, you're using one of two platforms for electronics, and you're delivering XYZ speed, and everybody does that. But really what
04:23
can separate you is how you handle, take care of the customer. Absolutely. And a big majority of our employees live and are in the communities that we serve. And I think that really sets us apart because they don't want their neighbors coming to them and saying, I've had a bad experience with you. They want to say, hey, thank you for the service you deliver. We really appreciate it. And I think overwhelming majority of our customers would.
04:53
would say that about us. yeah. You're in that, you you get in a small rural communities, everybody knows everybody's business, right? So news travels fast. ah But yeah, you take care of the customer and do the right thing. You mentioned, you know, buying citizens. You know, we're starting to see a little bit of that, kind of more of that movement, you know, in the industry. Do you think that's going to continue? I mean, how much change do you think we're going to see for the next handful of years?
05:22
It's going to be, I think, to answer your question, yes. I think there's going to be lots of mergers and acquisitions. Right now with the bead and all the funding mechanisms that are going on, everybody's trying to get their piece of the pie. The things people aren't thinking about that I don't think they're thinking about right now is we got to maintain these networks after we build them. These funding mechanisms are paying to build networks to rule customers, which is great.
05:52
quite a bit of capital to keep them things running. And that's when I think you're going to see smaller companies or startups be looking to sell acquisitions. hopefully with that being said, we get companies like ours that will deliver that cooperative mindset to the customers and they have a good high quality service. Yeah. that brings to mind, and I don't know if this stat is accurate, but I was told
06:21
that part of that budgeting process, what they're skipping is the maintenance, the upkeep of it, and it can be as much as 30 % a year. If you're spending a million dollars, you could spend $300,000 the next year and so on in the next five years upkeeping that network. And yeah, if that's not budgeted upfront, there's going to be some people that are caused to...
06:48
Absolutely. To do something different. Absolutely. the internet's not slowing down anytime soon. We've got to keep the new generation. I refer back to cell phones. When you walk out of the big box store with your brand new cell phone, you're excited. That thing's already outdated. The internet's working the same way. So you have to continually improve and get the latest and greatest in your network to keep up with demand. oh
07:18
job security for us, which is great. Well, you I look back, you years ago, and kind of the fiber of the home buzz kind of started. And we kind of had this mindset like, okay, well, so-and-so is doing this build, and then they're done. And like, well, now what? And so that was a legitimate concern, you know, for a while. But then it's just developing. You know, it's continuing to unfold.
07:47
And there's so much more, know, 15 years ago we thought it was a one and done, but it's clearly not that. No. Yeah. So. you know, these funding mechanisms are great.
08:00
I just.
08:04
I want to say this without saying. Trying to be political? It's okay. I'm trying not to be political. We can be honest. It's been, mean, so Bede was passed into law like, you know, through the Infrastructure Act, I think in what, November of 21? So we're four plus years in and I know there's a lot of projects awarded. I don't know if anybody actually has a deposit in the bank account.
08:33
So I think there's some concern. That's fair to say. Yeah, there is concern. you know, it's an investment for us. We want to be here for the long haul. So we're going to try to put it in the right way or we're not going to do it. When I'm... That's the one thing, I'm glad you said that because that's the one thing even, you know, looking back to, you know, art off builds and way back that, you know, some of these networks that we've already paid for,
09:00
uh once are even getting redone already. so, you know, it's all about from a sales perspective, we see customers, it's cost, cost, cost. How do we get this cheaper? How do we get it cheaper? Well, build it right the first time. So you don't have to build it twice. That's how you get it cheaper, right? And I think, know, the advantage for me is I was on the construction side, contractor side for, you know, almost 10 years. I got to see phone companies do it the cheap way. Go back the next year and do it in the same exact spot.
09:30
What kind of things like specifically would pop up? Like what's a good example of cutting a corner? Like going through a town. Let's put one pipe in all the way through the town. are engineers. Everybody's told us that this is exactly what we need. We'll never need no more. Yeah, you're never going to need more than this. They said that for a six count fiber feed in an AFC cabinet too, right? Exactly. And three years down the road, the town or municipality.
09:59
gets a, you know, decides they want industrial park or new neighborhood. You know, we have options of taking a fiber and splitting a pond out. Eventually you're going to run out and you're going to do it again. Yeah. It doesn't cost that much more money to upsize your fiber versus the labor it's going to cost to go through there and put another, another duct run or another run through town. Yeah. Planning for the future. And even planning for the future, you're not going to get it right. So, you know, I hate to say the word overbuild, but yeah, do it once and
10:29
But prepare your financial people to understand that this may not pay off on a spreadsheet today, but 10 years down the we've got to go back through this same town again, you're going to be glad. That's a tough sell to the accountants for sure. I had a customer out of Western Nebraska, tiny little town, maybe 300, 400 people. And the guy told me he'd board that one alley like seven times.
10:58
And so what does that cost? Exactly, exactly. Being prepared on the front end, planning for the future. AI, that's a key term in our industry right now. Nobody knows what the capacity or needs are going to be for these, hopefully soon, rule data centers. put some extras in there, just in case. The data centers, I'm glad you brought that up. That industry right now is just booming.
11:26
I mean so much that it's causing our customers, there's fiber shortages, materials are getting eaten up. It's my understanding that they're using about 80 % of the fiber available for data centers. And it's hard to blame a fiber manufacturer because they're using huge fibers, 1728s, 3456. So you can bundle a big, huge cable and charge more for it.
11:56
I mean, that's what they're in business to do, so it's hard to blame them. But right now with the timing, it's a challenge because had Bede laid out sooner and we were four years into construction and not four years into waiting, things would look a little bit different. And I think, know, just speaking of Bede and the delay it's been, the only people suffering in this equation are the rural customers that need access still waiting. Still waiting, you know. That's probably the most frustrating.
12:26
point to our perspective is, know, we've spent the money, we've prepared, we want to go out and build these networks for these folks. You you got to get the political aspect of it out and get out of the way, issue the money, and let's roll, let's get this thing done. Yeah. Well, what's interesting too is, you know, even as huge as that funding is, it's what, $40, $50 billion? uh That's just a small, small percentage of the actual spend, you know.
12:56
private equity is spending a tremendous amount of money compared to what the actual BID funding is. and they are. so the struggle if you're sitting there waiting for BID, your competitors, you know, if it's private equity funded, they're going right past you. They're building like crazy and so you kind of can get behind. Yeah, you know, being as rural as we are, we've kind of got that, I wouldn't say cornered, but you know, the business plan for rural America.
13:25
doesn't work very good for private equity firms and people looking to invest in that network. you know, that's why the BED programs, ARPA, the things we've done in the past is really crucial for our customers. Yeah. And the reality we are. So tell me a little bit about, uh so you're a plant manager. Yep. What does that mean? Because that can mean so many different things for...
13:51
So different companies. My official title is plant operations manager. So I oversee all our outside contractors, our engineering, our construction, also our internal networking. Sometimes you have seen you have a plant manager, an operations manager, inside versus outside, but you kind of have the whole spectrum. Yes. So we have, I think we're at 45 or 46 employees. And I think under my umbrella, I've got
14:20
26 of those employees. So, and recently our IT manager decides to retire. you know, I've assumed our internal IT, our network security and our managed service folks as well. So we go out and offer IT consulting for customers. Yeah. Okay. It's, I wear many hats and yeah, got your plate full for sure. But I have a fantastic team. I couldn't do it without the team because frankly,
14:49
There's no way I could keep up with all this. didn't have great supervisors and great employees to oversee these different departments. Talk a little bit about your leadership style. How long have you been in that leadership position? I'm going on about four years now. What have you learned in that four years? It was definitely a shock when I first took over. So I started out at Green Hills about eight years ago, and I come on to do construction. We were doing our own drops and doing some
15:18
short mainline pieces and that's what I knew how to do. Shortly after I started, we had a plant manager take over and he subbed out all the construction. So I'm sitting there with kind of my hands in my pocket. Yeah. Kind of want to build something but I got nothing to do. It's pivot or find a different job. So got in that working aspect of it. I've got background in carpentry, concrete work, all kinds of different construction. And so installing kind of came.
15:46
natural to me. I knew what to look for. knew how to do it. And it wouldn't, it was not keeping me interested. I got into the network side of it. Oh my, here's something, you know, I always joke about it. When I come to Green Hills, I knew how to check my email and get on Facebook. That's about all I how to do. And within about three years, I'd worked my way up to network engineer. And then shortly after that, we'd purchased citizens. We, management at the time decided they needed a supervisor.
16:16
down there, so I took that opportunity. That's when I transitioned to management. I went from working beside all these folks to now, lack of better words, telling them what to do. It was definitely a shock to me. I've always felt like good leaders lead by example. I knew how to do the work. I knew how to show people to do the work. I've kind of kept that same mindset as I've progressed through the organization.
16:44
Did that for about a year, our plant manager time decided to go to a different company. I got the opportunity to step up and become plant manager. I just kind of kept that same mindset. uh Well, obviously with so much under your wings, like you can't do it all. So you have to rely on those folks to. I do. do. we established a few supervisors. And once we did that, really took that day to day shoulder.
17:14
waited that was on me and took that over to where I could spend some more time strategically planning with my upper management. And I don't get to do the day-to-day stuff as much anymore. I'd love to. Kind of get caught up in the minutia of all the other stuff. Exactly. I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, I spend one day in the field and it seems like I missed three days in the office. we've got to...
17:42
Green Hills has the biggest construction project going on that it's ever had right now. When that's over, I hope to get back out and show my work to all the employees that I oversee. Now that project, is that in lieu of BEAT or is it in coordination with BEAT? Are you doing it anyway or how does that look? We're replacing our old copper infrastructure with fiber right now, fiber the home. We've got about three years left to do.
18:13
We're around 600 miles left. So it's a healthy chunk of network we've got to replace. But our copper networks, it's paid for itself several times over. It's time to retire it and get our members and our ILAC customers up to speed. So that's what we're working on OK. Yeah. So that's got to happen, regardless, frankly. Yeah. I mean.
18:36
We can't set on it anymore. Is it rural or is it still towns? No, it's all rural. went through and our towns about five years ago. Our towns consist of four to five to 600 people populations. we got all the densest areas built first. And now we've got the realest areas left to do. And we're working on it. Right now, we've got about 400 miles worth of cable.
19:04
stacked up, contractors currently working. So it's going to be great for us and it's going to be great for our rural customers. So before I was in this position, I covered the Iowa and Nebraska territory. so like in Western Nebraska, it's very rural. It's fiber to the ranch, basically. they kind of had to do it in reverse there because the copper couldn't feed out miles and miles to these ranches. So they did the rural first.
19:32
because at least in the communities, they could reach that small little area. And then they went back and did the town. So I was curious.
19:44
When we built the towns, we set it up, we used Future Path and got pipes to the edge of town. To where now when we go back and build the rule, we blow in our CO and take off at the edge of town and start plowing. So it really benefited a little forethought back in the day when they did this.
20:06
CBM is a manufacturer's rep based right here in Kansas City. We've got territory where we cover from Iowa all the way down to Texas. We cover specifically three different market segments, uh utility, commercial industrial, and broadband communications. CBM is structured differently. We're an employee-owned company. We're ran as an ESOP. That allows us to do business differently. We can cross lines of markets. We can put our people where they need to be.
20:35
and really have expertise in the right place. That's what makes a difference uh for our customers and for our manufacturers. If you think we can help you uh with the product line in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. Find us right here at cbmrep.com.
20:56
So how long have you used that product and now that you have used it, what would you say about it? I know, because some people are just reluctant. Like it's something different, know, contractors with your background, a lot of times when you run into a contractor and they're, well, I've done it this way for 20 years. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes that's a red flag, but what would you say about that now? The benefits outweigh the...
21:24
Montraged if we all always done it this way, you know, I pulled I pulled seven two inch or inch and a quarter duck packages through town. It's just It's a lot. It's a lot and with future baths. It's like pulling a two inch, know, do a seven way It's like pulling one two inch pipe. Yeah, you know in most situations we use one maybe two pipes going through town and we've got four extra pipes in at the edge of town. Yeah, and You know like like we talked about earlier having had
21:54
having that infrastructure there to where you never have to pay the labor to put it in again. It's not going to pay off until you go to use it. The cost of the product doesn't matter at point. Absolutely. So if you're putting in seven, let's just say seven inch and a quarters, how big a hole you got to make with your drill? You're going to have to have at least a 10 or 12 inch reamer on there and coming back. So you're like putting a 12 inch water main in versus.
22:22
sneaking through there with a two inch pipe that's got same density. in terms, like from an operator's perspective or the owner of construction uh perspective, how does that risk feel? If you're just putting your bore in the ground and pulling back up, you're making probably a four inch hole with just a typical bit. Going from a four inch hole to a 10 or 12 inch hole, how much more risk are you? Can you feel it when you're sitting there pulling that?
22:52
back reamer and you feel the tension. Absolutely. You've got five, six, five, or five, six, seven trailers full of inch and a quarter duct. You're going all into one hole and you're hoping your water and everything's set right to where, when you get back at the end of your 400 foot pool, that you don't come out and you only got six of your seven pipes. being able to use just a smaller FuturePass seven way.
23:20
alleviates a lot of that risk. And for me, oh on the telephone side, it costs a little less. We may pay a little more for the material up front, the labor, the contractor doesn't have to take the risk of losing one of those pipes and have to do that whole entire bore over again. So he gives me a little better price, I hope. Yeah. Well, and that's one thing that I've found customers don't think about. Like, OK, well, a seven-way future path is X, and we're going to do
23:51
two or three inch and a quarters at Y. price could be, that could be less than this. But the cost goes way up when you're pulling a back reamer versus just. Putting a swivel on your head and you're going for it. Yeah. a lot of times that gets overlooked. I think sometimes too, sometimes we make it too difficult. Somebody that's not used it, that product could be a little intimidating.
24:17
and just questions of how do we couple it, how do we do this, how do we do that. So I think we've kind of learned to maybe start slower. A single micro-duck, the four-way, kind of work your way into it. once you see, typically that's what I've seen, once you've used it and seen the benefits, it's pretty hard to go back. Absolutely, absolutely. We've done a couple small towns this last year and we did the whole town in micro-duck.
24:46
It was easier on the contractors. It was easier on everybody involved, because you're dealing with a half-inch pipe or three-quarter-inch pipe versus an inch and a quarter. I think it helped with the production as well. They seemed to go a lot faster. It wasn't so cumbersome. You're your rural in conduit or just direct plowing? Just direct plowing. We have some strategic areas where we're doing...
25:13
future path between COs, know, if they're close enough. We're really close to I-70, so, you know, everybody and their brother that's going from St. Louis to Kansas City are on that path. There's an asset there, for sure. Absolutely. you we've, you're from around here, you've seen...
25:33
Kansas City expanding down I-70 farther and farther and farther. Eventually they may make a dart in the of the woods, and at least we have a future path to that area and being able to serve them customers as they go. and two besides that, so they're redoing I-70 all the way between. And I've met with the engineers that are doing that, and that conduit infrastructure is part of that project. they're not putting it, they've got existing conduit. They're trying to make that work as much as can, because they frankly don't have the budget for it.
26:03
it's likely that state won't have a big future path run down I-70. So you having it right along next to it's going to be very valuable in the future. That's what we're hoping. Yeah. For sure. So what's some of the biggest lessons you've learned building fiber networks? I'll go back to what I said earlier, do it right the first time. We can plan and think.
26:31
as much as you want, but if you're trying to do cheaper, you're trying to cut corners, you're eventually going to pay that money. Whether it be today or when a subdivision fires up in your network. I'm trying my best to build a network that I don't have to build again before I retire, and time will tell. Yeah, no, for sure. So relationships are key to us here at CPM, obviously as a sales organization.
27:00
uh taking care of customers like you is critical to us. uh Talk about the relationships that you have uh and how important they are to get things done for you. Absolutely. You build relationships over time. And if I find good quality individuals, whether it be our staff, our contractors, our sales reps, I'm going to stick with them.
27:28
One of these days, this industry is going to slow down just a little bit. And then people are going to be more valuable than any run of the mill. I bought a board rig. Can I do your work? I've got two drop blouses I started last week. Finding high quality people that do it the right way is getting harder and harder to find. So once I find individuals or companies that do that, I stick with them. Yeah, loyalty. Absolutely.
27:57
It may cost me a little bit more money in some of these situations, but I'd rather have high quality individuals. And it may cost you more not. Exactly. Over the years, I've seen poor contractors and I've seen good contractors. Just dealing with the public. If you've got a poor contractor up there tearing up their yards, cutting their water lines, cutting their power, you're going to pay for that. Your perspective on the public is going to...
28:26
Yeah, their performance is reflecting your reputation for sure. Absolutely. Everybody that works for us has Green Hill's name tied to them. And I want to make sure we're putting high quality individuals in every aspect of our operation. I feel like right now that we have that. And I'm going to try my best to keep with it. Talk about what you guys do uh for the community, some of the community involvement. I know uh
28:56
You do quite a bit with uh scholarship programs, different things like that. What does that marketing and community involvement look like for you guys? So we do our FRS scholarship every year. also participate in the NTCA trip to Washington. So we fund a 15 or 16-year-old to take a week trip out to Washington, Let them see the capital. um
29:25
let them go out there and tour all the sites of Washington, DC. And we donate to a lot of local organizations, know, Rotaries, Lions Clubs, sports teams. We try to really get our name out there. Last year, about mid-year, we fired up a community Wi-Fi to where people that are less fortunate have access to the internet and the community. We've stood them up and...
29:54
in a couple of parks, you know, in some of our exchanges. Okay. Is this what I read? The Smart Towns program? And that, you know, I think that's a fantastic program.
30:08
especially for the school kids that don't have access to internet. They can go to a safe park in their community, take their tablet or their school computer and get their homework done. COVID hit and that really...
30:25
really emphasized the need. When the country was shutting down, the schools were calling us and like, we've got kids that's got to have internet. So we spent probably three weeks, we were throwing modems and ONTs through windows and saying here, because you couldn't have contact. So we'd have the customer that the school would call us and say, this family can't afford the internet. We'd run out. We'd stay at the front door if we had to.
30:53
Get them some kind of access to where they can do their schoolwork. And I think that's kind of when the conversations of SmartTown started. And it's kind of developed into what it is now. And now we, you know, if you've got a park or an open area or city-owned facilities, we try to get at least an access. Library or whatever. Absolutely. centers. Try to get something in there to where people have access to an internet service so they can complete their homework.
31:22
And that's going back to the things that set you guys apart. That's the service. There's no big C-Lite company that's going to do that. I wouldn't think so. Giving our product away is probably not in their, or giving their product away is probably not in their Montrach. we feel like it's something that the community needs and something we can offer. What do do on the side? What's your personal hobbies? Chase kids around.
31:50
J-skids around. How many you got? Got three. One girl's 19 and the boy's 15. Another boy's eight. The girl's graduated. She's going to college. But the two boys, they play sports. What are they into? So my oldest boy, does golf. And then the youngest one is playing baseball. It's fun. Two different swings. Yep.
32:18
Keep up with them. I golf a little bit and hunt and fish, do all the country boy stuff. We really enjoy the outdoors and try to get out there as much as we can. Yeah, that's right up my alley. It depends on what season if I'd rather hunt or if I'd rather fish. You can't miss any of it from my perspective. No, we're really into duck hunting, waterfowl hunting. We really enjoy that.
32:44
Around home or do you go elsewhere? No, we do around Chillagawhee. We got a fountain to grow, Grand Pass in the area, a lot of management areas. A lot of that public ground or lease? Yeah, we do a little bit of both. I've got a lease. It's hit or miss. If we're missing, we'll spend some days going in, getting into public land and hunting that. It's fun experience. Right there just east of us.
33:13
You've got the big outfitters for waterfowl that they hold a lot of birds. Between MDC and what operations they've got going on, there's always some ducks around. Probably a lot of snow geese right now. They're coming through by the millions. oh Last weekend, I tried to organize a trip up to Mount City, to are the Lucius Bluff now is what they're calling it.
33:41
They said that they've got a record number of sow geese up there right now. It's a pretty impressive sight when you three million birds in the same spot. It amazes me. when I was young, I grew up doing a lot of pheasant hunting, a lot of duck hunting, got more into deer hunting. The older I've gotten, I've kind of spun off more towards deer than the waterfowl. But I can remember just how terrible we were.
34:10
I had a buddy that was ate up with it and he was terrible and I learned from him so I was even worse. We would do some of the dumbest stuff. We built a blind on his boat one time and it was probably, I mean you could sit on it and have a foot of headroom. And we took it out the first time, built it out of plywood and two befores and it barely floated. There was about an inch of clearance on the back uh for the water was coming over.
34:40
sat out there in a storm and we didn't think about putting a fuse on the spotlight. So that burned up. We're sitting out there. You got to go out at midnight on this public stuff. And we sat through two ridiculous lightning storms. And the next day, it got windy. We could barely make a boat back to the ramp without sinking this boat. We just did some dumb stuff. We went one time. The opening day of duck season was usually on Saturday.
35:11
For whatever reason, I forget what year this was, but it started on a Sunday. And we got up to this little lake and uh we figured there'd be people lined up to try to get in. uh there's one boat there. There's actually two boats. He's got their duck boat and he's got another boat full of goose decoys. And we get out and we're like, kind of what's up? He's like, yeah, it's too bad duck season's not open tomorrow. And we got like six, seven dozen duck decoys in.
35:40
No, no goose decoys. And we borrowed a friend's dog, because you got to have a dog if you're a waterfowl hunt. So we get up there and it's not even season. The guy's like, well, if it wasn't for that darn dog, we'd let you go with us, but I ain't letting that mud in my boat. So we turned around, went home, ran out of gas, slept at a gas station. And I mean, we had just ridiculous trips like that all the time. And now I look at my son, he's into it. he like...
36:09
The quality of hunts that he goes on at his age versus what I tried to muddle through, it just blows my mind how good they are versus back then. Yeah, that's like the, know, a lot of the areas we like hunting are walk-ins. And I remember the first time I did it, I put four dozen decoys on my back and had my spinners, my gun, my bag, and a bucket. By the time I got to the pool I was signed to that day, I was absolutely exhausted. Yeah.
36:35
Now it's like a fine old machine. I had some good mentors in this that hunted for a long time and they had a complete set up with the cart and the sleds and that's like clockwork. you mentioned your son, doesn't know how good he has it on that end of it. The warning process I had to go through to get to that set up, he got to skip.
37:04
It's kind of the same for everything, not just hunting, but everything. He hit me up this year and he goes, you know, I'm going to go with my buddies and do all this. Well, he'd never been by himself. like, I'm going to go with you. I'm going to show you guys how to do it the right way. So that way this doesn't happen. It ended up turning out, but I, you know, I joked with him. said, you've, you've pushed the cart about 10 feet and you were complaining about that. You you need, you need dad to go with you a little bit and kind of just show you the ropes.
37:33
We'll get out. It's amazing when you get on a good hunt how awesome and how quick it is. It's like you want it to last all day. The nice thing about that too is you're sitting there, the camaraderie, whether it's with your buddies or your sons or whatever, where for me I'm sitting in a tree stand by myself all day. Like, well, this is kind of dumb. And you mentioned you weren't going from waterfowl to deer. I did the exact opposite.
38:02
It was my early 20s before I ever got into waterfowl hunting. We'd always deer and turkey hunted on the farm and everything. With the leasing of the ground and hunting rights and all that in our area, it changes the landscape a little bit. really does. really does. I was used to going and having access to 10,000 acres with all my cousins and relatives. And I get it.
38:32
They're leasing it out. They're making some revenue off the ground. But it kind of really hampered our ability to produce big deer. I just kind of lost interest over time. Now, I love going with the kids. mean, seeing the joy in the boys' face when they get even a doe, mean, it's fantastic. We uh had a little, I've got a little side business. sell fish and tackle. We make different lures. And we had a show this weekend.
39:01
And this little kid kind of peeked his head around the corner and he looked at me. I recognized him. And he came in, he's like, were you here last year? I said, yep. He says, right here in the same spot? I said, yeah. I said, I remember you. He says, well, you gave me a big white swimbait last year. I said, I remember. He said, you want to see what I caught on it? I said, absolutely. And he pulls out his phone and shows me this picture. It a 63 pound flathead. Oh, my.
39:30
And he actually had a picture of the certificate of the master angler deal from the state. That's awesome. I said, I think you've actually got the record for the largest fish ever caught on one of our baits. And his eyes got big. He's like, are you kidding? I'm like, no, that's hands down. That's awesome. And so we filled him up with a whole other bag full of stuff. And he's 12 years old. just, I mean,
40:00
super intelligent about it, you know, and he was just ate up with it. So it was so great to see. He brought his dad back later and I was talking to him and ah I'm going to do my darndest to take this kid out fishing this summer too because I asked him if he had a boat. No, we just have, we fish from the bank. He's like, do you have a boat? I said, I got a boat. He said, oh man, would you take me? So I'll take you. But yeah, just to see the joy and the passion in that kid's, it was great.
40:30
I'm turkey hunting my middle son, watching him harvest turkey. get more, my blood gets pumping more watching him than I think it ever has. Me doing it myself. One thing I've learned uh with my son is I've got to learn to trust his instincts. Because he's right more often than he's wrong. And it's hard to not get in the way and you want to do it your way but... uh
40:58
His instincts are normally right, so it's kind of a challenge. It's fun to watch. We had some last year that did it perfect. I they flew down about 80 yards and walked right to the decoys. And I was sitting about 10 yards away in a rose bush. And I was just sitting there going, shoot. he just didn't have a gun up to his shoulder. He watched them attack the decoys and strut around a little bit. Eventually, he pulled up and shot one.
41:27
I was melting over there in the room. like, they're going to get away. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like I mentioned, you know, being able to trust my son's instincts and letting him ah kind of take it and do his own thing with it. How does that relate back to business, whether it be new employees, ah you know, and trusting, you know, trusting a new way to, to tackle something? oh
41:55
My least favorite thing in the organization is this is the way we've always done it. And we had a lot of high quality tenured employees that's recently retired. Over the last three years, we've, I'd hate to say out with the old, in with the new, but we had a bunch of retirees and we had to bring in some new staff. We do an internship program at Green Hills every year. It's really, it's try before you buy. Yeah.
42:23
We've had really great success out of kids coming out of Lintech or State Tech out in Missouri. I think we've had about five interns that go to school down there and we've hired two of them. I'm getting ready to try to hire a third one when he graduates in May. Yeah, awesome. Trusting my employees to do their job, that's part of mine. We talked about how many hats I wear.
42:46
If I didn't trust my employees, there's no way I could do this. Is it hard for you to step back and let them do it? I'm the kind of guy that has a hard time not just doing it? It was very challenging early in my management career. I've always been the doer. What triggered the change? Not being able to keep up with my... Just necessity? Exactly. I had to delegate some responsibilities down. at first, I was really hesitant to do it.
43:16
But now I do it pays dividends. Not only are they capable of doing the work, which I never doubted, they come up with better ways to do it than I could ever think of. Our big theme right now at our organization is automation. And I've started some of younger staff, I've started even saying autonomy. I want a customer to be able to order a service from us and never have to interact with a human being.
43:45
This is... let me just be the devil's advocate. Is that good or is that bad? Because you also have an opportunity, you know, when the tech goes out and interacts with the customer, that also can be another touch with that customer. It can. It can. And with that being said, you know, we want the customer to be able to buy and use our service however they want. You know, if they want that interaction, by all means, we want to offer it. Yeah. If they don't, if they want to text or get on the computer and...
44:14
and do it themselves, we want to have that option. We want to have every avenue for the customer to buy and utilize our service that we can. we're a years away from that. We're phasing out our legacy systems and getting the new ones and so on and so forth. But having that young talent with a fresh look, it's one thing the younger generation, I don't think, is putting up with is wasting.
44:42
Wasting time doing unnecessary steps. But they learn totally differently. oh My generation, I started out, I didn't have a phone until I was 16 years old. I mean, it wasn't a thing and it was a flip phone at them. These kids now, they're born with a tablet in their hand. Yeah, they're light years ahead. Yeah, they're thinking of things that I didn't even know that was on the radar. So it's fantastic to see.
45:09
Well, we're super excited about your growth and we're glad to be a part of it with you as one of your partners. And I can't thank you enough for coming in and joining us today. Well, I really appreciate you having me and giving me the opportunity to get through this and shine some light on Green Hills. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much.
45:33
Special thanks again to Chris for coming down and being in studio with us today. It great spending time with him. Got to know him a little bit more on a personal level, so that was great. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Remember, if you need help on a project or looking for representation here in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. You can find us right here at cbmrep.com. Give us a like, comment, subscribe, let us know what you'd like to see on future episodes. Thanks again for joining us on Power of the Network, and until next time, we'll see you next time.
