00:00
Hi and welcome to Power of the Network. I'm your host Tim Locker, Vice President of Broadband here at CBM. We've got an absolute special guest for you here today. This lady we've worked with for the last 14 years, Ms. Nancy Combs. She's an HR specialist. She's one of the best in the field when it comes to HR. She's done so much to help us here at CBM. Absolute one of the most classy people I've ever met and just love her to death.
00:27
I'm so grateful that she was able to join us today and you're really going to love this episode. Well, Nancy, thank you so much for joining us today. I know we put you through a little technical issues here getting you signed into this, but we really want our guests to be determined to be on our podcast. So thank you for hanging with us and getting in here.
00:53
No. You know, it's great to see you. I think it's been a few years since we've seen each other at one of the CPMR events. you're one of my favorite people. When I got to go through CPMR, one of most impressive people, so classy, and just you made an impression on me over those years that I was there. And I know CPM has worked with you for years and years.
01:22
And I just want to say thank you for everything you've done for us. Not a problem. Just 14 years now, I think. Is it 14 years? We're getting started. I'm going to keep this up to long-winded. That's awesome. So you've been doing this now for, what, about 40 years? Yes, I have. In the HR field? Next year will be 40 years. Wow, that's awesome. What would you say are the...
01:51
the biggest three mistakes that employers make in general when it comes to HR concerns? it comes to HR? Yeah, HR in general. What are probably the three biggest mistakes that you see employers where they fail? The first mistake they make is they have no clue what they don't know. I call it unconscious incompetence.
02:20
They don't know what they're doing and they don't know they don't know. Yeah. And then they become like a two year old with a cigarette lighter in their hand and the fire looks beautiful. So I'm going to light the curtains and then it'll be big and beautiful. Say that's what they do. They don't know. They don't know. They underestimate the importance of a problem.
02:49
And then it gets out of hand. Okay. And they hire the wrong people. That seems to be a hot topic, I think, in every industry right now. know, everybody we talk to, you know, when you ask them what's their biggest challenge, it's finding people to work and then second on top of that, finding good people to work.
03:16
I was reading, you had an article posted at Contractor Supply magazine and you mentioned, you were talking about hiring the right people. And I think you said that finding the right person or the right fit is naive. What did you mean by that? In terms of hiring, the very first thing you want to look for is brains.
03:44
brains are underestimated. Unfortunately, there is a huge emphasis on chemistry. I like this person. Yeah, we both went to Duke. They like football, me too. There's a huge emphasis on that. I don't need to like you first. First, I want to know how smart you are.
04:13
because if you're smart, I can have a lot of flexibility. I can move you from job to job and you can learn. You can do critical thinking. You can do problem solving. I don't have to babysit you. You can figure things out on your own. Once I find out that you're smart enough to do the job. Okay.
04:41
Now we will look to see if you will drive me crazy. Now we're going to find out about your work style. In terms of our reps, we have to put those reps out into a territory where we don't see them. We have to have a trust relationship. They're doing what they're supposed to be doing.
05:06
We have to have the confidence that they are making the impression on our customer that reflects our brand. And a lot of other things. We have to see if they are flexible enough that they do not want to continue to revert back to the 1990s and refuse to use the CRM. Because they want to do it like they did it.
05:36
lack of flexibility, that rigid, I'm going to do it my way. It's very hard to work with people who are not willing to be part of a team now in 2025. And I watched this sort of migrate out, some way or another, they go away. So finding that person that has a work style that is compatible
06:05
to your business is the second thing, not the first thing. If you can't learn the job, we don't care how much we like you. Because if we hire you and we train you for five years, we will have a dummy with five years training. You have to be able to learn the job. And the third thing we look for is will you fit into our business?
06:35
We're a rep group. We don't want someone who is happy to log in at 8.30 a.m. and then two hours later say, oh, it's my break time. Oh, and then two hours, it's my lunch time. Go work for the government. Go work at the driver's license bureau where they pull down that curtain when it's time for everybody to take their breaks or lunch. At our place, you know, we have to run toward the fire.
07:04
if there's a problem. We have to go to that customer proactively. We don't sit around and wait to take orders. So you have to fit the culture of that organization. I'm reluctant for you to hang on the word culture because I think we use it to cover too many topics. But you have to fit that.
07:34
You have to fit, the work style has to fit your job and you have to fit into our organization. And if we can get those three things right, then we know that there are things out there we cannot find out until you're actually on the job.
07:58
Sometimes those things involve... feel a little bit overwhelmed after you've explained all that. I mean, it's certainly a challenge finding those kinds of people. You know, one of the things that we've worked with you on over the years is, you know, the pre-employment testing. Absolutely. Touch on that, you know, what that process looks like, what you're looking for, and explain...
08:27
the importance of what you do in that pre-employment screening process? No matter what business you're in, if you are in the business of hiring people, you need a toolbox.
08:45
You must have a toolbox, just like the repair tech that goes out, climbs up on a building to repair the HVAC or the communication system. Got a toolbox, got tools, and they have to be tools for that process. We're going to conduct a process here.
09:09
So I'm going to have a job description because I have to know what job I'm looking for.
09:16
And then I hope that I'm smart enough to create a solicitation that would draw in candidates who are qualified.
09:26
Then I'm going to require a resume or an application form. We're going to do the application form before they go to work anyway because it has some signatures on there we need.
09:40
and then we're gonna do a screening interview.
09:44
And if we get through those steps, so we have to know how to interview, we have to ask the right questions, we have to make sure we know how to review that resume, then we're going to use the assessment. It is an objective, external process, does not know the candidate, never met them, has no clue whether they're married.
10:14
where they went to school, nothing. So it's a clinical process. So it eliminates the chemistry. It eliminates the chemistry, the bias, and it tells the truth whether you want to know the truth or not. You're going to learn what there is. And I constantly, of course, have clients who say, how do you know that? How did you know that? And my, the...
10:41
the evil side of Nancy Combs wants to say, it's magic. But the reality is, the candidate told me, I did the online assessment, all I have to do is be smart enough to evaluate it. They told me everything I needed to know. In that one hour, maybe one hour, 15 minutes, those who do not understand that process,
11:08
say, well, we don't need to do that. Oh, I can just tell. When I interview people, I can tell you who the good ones are. And my response is, what's your turnover? Because everybody who comes there needs to add value. Everybody needs to contribute to your bottom line. Absolutely. You know, I can vouch for your pre-employment screening. Luckily for me,
11:36
I started here at CBM before we incorporated that into the hiring process. Well, we'll go right back and get you right in. Because I'd be afraid of, I don't know that I'd be where I'm at if I had to go through that test, but you know, the ones recently, then I've, you know, been able to be a part of the hiring. I can honestly say those assessments are right absolutely 100 % of the time. I'm delighted because
12:04
that has to add value, that tool. And then of course we have to go check their backgrounds. At this very moment, I am working on, as an expert witness on a case involving negligent hiring where the employer did not do that and the employee had a conviction and they killed two children.
12:34
Well, that's terrible. Because they didn't check their background. You know, as I move up in our organization and I get to learn more about policy and HR and the value, you know, in a small company like ours, you know, those kinds of changes can something, you know, people will say, wow, we're getting, you know, it's too corporate. It doesn't feel like the same, you know, home sweet home little company. But talk about the value of why it's important and how
13:05
those policies protect not only the company but the employee? That's a wonderful question. It's wonderful question. In fact, there sometimes is a controversy as we look at HR and there are those who don't understand and they say,
13:29
Yes, we have an HR person, but it's really just a necessary evil. We have to do the things that the government tells us. We have to put them on the payroll. We have to go through the paperwork. They really just cost us a lot of money. And I say, I'll be glad to cost you a lot of money if you want me to. I'll sign right up and do that. I'll spend your money. But those of us who are trained in this field,
13:58
and who have worked in this field will tell you this. Our salespeople hit the road outside and inside. They upsell and proactively increase our sales. Those folks work really hard to bring those sales in all kinds of weather and all kinds of circumstances.
14:26
face to face with that customer.
14:31
and they put that money on the top line of your business.
14:36
In HR, our goal is to make sure you get that money to the bottom line. And if you manage your business badly, you won't do that. You'll pay that out in unemployment claims. You'll pay it out in workers comp. You'll pay it out in EEOC charges for discrimination. You'll have high turnover because you didn't choose the right people. And every one of those activities cost you money.
15:05
So we'll just spend your money and it'll all go away. So I can either make money for you if you cooperate or I'll spend your money. And then all of that work winds up with nothing to pay the shareholders, which in your case is wonderful because you're an ESOP. So it's in everybody's best interest. We do this right.
15:35
And those who do it right tend to do extremely well. Those who don't struggle and they cannot figure out why they struggle. You have to hire the right people. You have to invest in their development and I know you do that because of course I work with Marla and her commitment to make sure everybody knows everything.
16:01
You know, one of the things that I often tell my classes who are HR professionals.
16:12
Knowledge and love are the only two things that have absolutely no value unless you share them. Well, that's wonderful. And no matter how much you share, you will still have all you ever had. Yeah, you don't lose it when you give it away, do you? the BPMR class,
16:41
When I stand before your CPMR class and I say, learn this, I want you to learn this. I need you to know this. When I walk out that door as your instructor, I still know all that. And now you know it too. And what that does, that many managers do not know, many executives do not know, is by sharing what you know, you increase your influence.
17:09
That's an excellent way to look Because five years from the time I had you in my CPMR class, you will say something. You'll say, learned that from Nancy Combs. And 10 years from the time you were in my class, you'll say, I learned this from the instructor I had when I was at CPR. Now let me think. What was her name? She red hair. And 20 years from now, We'll never forget your name. Yeah. 20 years from now, you'll say, this is my idea.
17:38
That's when I've done my job. So when I have those who don't want to share knowledge with those coming along, I think, I feel sorry for you, you're gonna have a hard time getting to the top. Those at the top want to share everything and that's what you will have in your president. Your president, Marla, is just the best.
18:03
Teach them everything. This isn't a Marla show. Come on now. She's scared the other room get over there. And she is incredibly talented. But she has a bench over there. She has a bench with people on that bench. She's building that bench strength. And that's what you're supposed to do. That's the right thing. And we'll help you do that. But those who are not open to that tend to be acquired.
18:32
They merge into others. They don't have the field. They don't have the people to take the field and move it forward. And we can't help them. They need to be like Kansas City Chiefs, right? Constantly fill on the bench. What other questions that's a term that I've heard all the years that I've been here, filling that bench and continuing to look for folks to fill that bench.
19:01
I think you may be right. Somebody may have claimed your ideas already. They're supposed to do that, you know? Because one day I'll disappear and I need them to know that. And I need them to know how to do that. And I'm so frustrated when they don't. So that kind of leads me into the next question. So you kind of wear an awful lot of hats when it comes to HR from
19:31
lawyer and litigation, business owner, speaker, and also professor. Is that accurate too? Yes, that's accurate too. Of all those hats, and I think your last statement kind of led to it, but it seems like you're very, very passionate about that teaching role. Talk a little bit more about what you do.
20:00
as a professor and as a teacher and why that's so important to you? I'm an educator. I'm an educator in my core. I'm an educator. And I'm an educator because I believe that you do what you love to do. The way you are successful, do what you love to do.
20:28
I don't think I always knew that, but I knew when I was in corporate America, because I started in corporate America. And I was responsible for 51 drugstores, pharmacies, 1,200 employees.
20:49
And when we had to separate a pharmacist, now remember how much education you need to be a pharmacist. Remember how much and how much internship and co-op you must have in order to earn those licenses and pass that incredibly difficult test. And now we're going to separate this employee who is not competent.
21:19
And over and over I heard I never wanted to be a pharmacist. I hated every day of it. I'm only a pharmacist because my dad was a pharmacist. And he said I had to do that. My granddad was a pharmacist. There's been a pharmacist in my family for three generations. I hate this work. What did you want to do, I would say? I wanted to run a dairy farm.
21:47
And my dad said, if nothing else ever worked out for me, then I could go do that.
21:53
I said, go buy yourself some cows. Don't listen to those people. Go do what you love. And educating is what I love. So as a consultant, no matter what role I'm playing here, whether I'm in the classroom, on the, behind a lectern, at a seminar, giving advice, my number one job.
22:18
Number one job is that I am an advisor to executives of companies. That's my number one job. In my field, human resources, organizational management. Why? Stay in your lane. When a consultant comes to me and says, want to join your firm, I say, tell me what you're an expert in. Well, I know a lot of things. I've worked a long time. I've been working a lot of different areas. And I said, there are people in corporate America that do that.
22:49
In our work, we know everything about one thing. That's why they call us an expert. You have to be an expert. If you want to be looked upon as an expert, you better get good before you try to look good. You better know what you're talking about. So when I'm working with my clients, and because I work with executive level people, these people are smart. You can't calm them. So you either know what you know or you don't.
23:19
And the smartest words you can say sometimes is, don't know. I don't know, I'll go find out. I don't know. But I do know what I know. And I say to them, I do two things.
23:35
I educate them first. call it executive education. I tell them this is what our problem is. This is why we have it. This is what we need to do about it. This is the reason we're going to do it this way. That's executive education. They can use that next time. And then the second thing I do is I tell them what to do because that's why they call me. Nancy, a problem. What would you say the percentage?
24:03
What is the percentage of, you know, when you tell someone what to do, what's the percentage of success, or I guess how many of them listen? Do you still struggle with them listening? And how do you not take it personal if they don't? If they listen, I know who they are, I still have, the very first client I ever had died. I loved him to the moment of his death on Christmas Eve a few years ago.
24:33
And my clients are with me forever. mean like forever. If they know, and they know where is that line that we call Nancy. They can run their business, they don't need me to run their business. They need me to help them when something happens that they need me for. When they don't know what to do. They either don't know what to do and they say, Nancy, I don't know what to do about this. I just need your advice.
25:03
Or more often, they know what to do. They just need me to validate that. They have the reassurance. Yeah. Oh yeah. They need to know that they're doing it right. And when I say, yeah, that's the way we do it. We're good. We're gone. Now, when they don't listen, they don't work with me, of course. But I struggled with that for a while. Many years I struggled, many. And
25:32
My eldest godchild is a surgeon. He's an oncologist. His work is breast cancer surgery. And one day I said to this brilliant young man who is now, of course, approaching, he's rich enough he could have retired 100 years ago, but anyway, he's now a fully mature adult and has a marvelous practice.
26:02
I said, Alex, what do you do when your patient doesn't listen to you? When you tell them they have to do A, B, C, and D in order to get well, and they go right on doing that habit, and they die. He said, I send the invoice to their insurance company. I said, Alex, by the Lord. And he said,
26:31
all God children coming out. No, I can only do what I can do. I can only give them my best advice. I can only use my scalpel to do the work I know how to do. But if they don't listen to me, that's not my fault. I have to move on. I can't get mired down in someone else's stubbornness.
27:01
I send the invoice to their insurance company. I never forgot that. I learned that from a child. I learned that from a young person. And I thought, how smart. He does not accept ownership in their refusal to succeed. And so I don't own that. I just say. that's not unloving in any way.
27:29
And I think that's what some people kind of get stuck on, you know? Exactly. Yeah. Yes, exactly. But you just simply cannot enable yourself to be miserable because this person chose not to listen to your advice. It bogs you down and then you can't help other people. So I chase success all the time. I go take care of those who
27:59
want to win. You want to win? I'm going help you. Yeah. And if you don't want to win, I'm going to transfer to another team, you know? Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's awesome.
28:15
What's different about CBM? First and foremost, it's our ESOP. Employee owners have more control and more ability to make decisions that are right for our customers and right for our company and right for our manufacturers. We've got the flexibility to put people where they need to be and use our experts wisely. If you need help with a project or need representation from an excellent sales force here in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. You can reach out to us here at CBM rep.
28:45
dot com.
28:49
What are some of the hot topics in HR? Talk about, we had the COVID pandemic, a lot of companies kind of shut down, employees were working from home. Some companies are coming back to the office, some are still working from home. That seems to be a hot topic in the industry still. What are you seeing on that?
29:19
I thought you were going ask me about ICE. It's a huge, huge problem right now. Huge, huge. Over in the distribution centers where I have lots and lots of clients. Manufacturing where I have lots and lots of clients. Not as much in your business because of the nature of your work and the employees who are in your
29:47
industry we don't have nearly as many problems. But that is a huge issue right at the moment in the workplace. Returning to the big deal we have, again, I'm very happy that you raised this topic.
30:09
When COVID happened, we were not ready. I teach disaster recovery as part of the CPMR course. It's not a part, it's not a segment that's very long. And it's like watching paint dry on a wall. It's just so boring. I created a template for my CPMR participants.
30:37
because it's hard to get started. They don't even know where to start. Post-COVID, they packed the house everywhere because they'd been through a disaster and they weren't ready. Our country wasn't ready. We had no idea what to do. We had to wing it. I had to wing it. I had to create on the fly with all of you. We did it. We got through it.
31:07
But we shut down this country. Now I had a few old dudes that called up the office and said, I'm not calling on anybody, I'm not traveling, I'm gonna be here, I'll be an order taker for the next whatever it is, be sure and send my check on time and I want my travel allowance. And that created some real conflicts as they just shut down.
31:38
Others, as you know in your own business, found clever ways to make it all work, and you made it all work. And you came back to work. Return to work became a huge problem. As you know, very large organizations such as Chase Bank, their chairman, their, the chairman, Jamie Dimon, had to literally say, report to work or get another job.
32:07
And that has happened now with lots of companies. Why? Number one, wage fraud. They weren't working. And I would have a principal say, I have told my customer service manager she must return to the office and she says that she simply can't because during COVID she created a daycare center in her home. She has five children she takes care of every day.
32:36
I said, are you telling me that she's running a separate business and she's your customer service manager? Yes. But that's why she's not coming back to the office where you have four employees that she's responsible for. Well, she tells me she can do both jobs really well. I'm proud of that. I think that's great. She has an option. You're her primary employer. If she wants to stay with you, she'll return to work. Right now,
33:06
We've done a lot of things, but let's talk about where we are right now. Some employees are remote. We call them salespeople. They've been remote since day one. They are required to have an office out of their home. They've had it since day one. They're remote employees. Nothing's changed. Some employees are on site.
33:33
Manufacturing employees are on site, distribution center employees shipping and receiving truck drivers, you name it, we've got employees that have to be there because of the nature of what they do.
33:46
Then we have those that want to argue about that. I can just do my job as well at home as I can here. We had so much wage fraud of people not working that many, many companies have become just gun shy. No, we're not going to let people work from home because it really hurt us during COVID that our customers weren't taken care of and employees weren't properly supervised and we want our people back to work. I understand that.
34:18
It seems that a lot of companies have accepted that we're going to have a hybrid.
34:26
you're going to come to work four days a week or in most cases, it's done by the quarter. just yesterday, two days ago, two days ago, I just created a policy for one of the principles of a company just like yours, just exactly like yours. And they allow their executives
34:54
to work outside the office two days a quarter.
35:00
and they allow their administrative employees to work outside the office three days a quarter.
35:10
And that's all. They call that hybrid. And they may never, ever have work away from the office two times a week. Four days a week must be in the office that prevents them from saving up their days and using them all at one time. Because over the years since 2021, when all this went crazy,
35:40
employees have learned how to play that system really well. there are companies that allow hybrid schedules, but they're so careful now because of the many problems they've had. working from your office or in your assigned work site,
36:09
must be the same as it was pre-COVID for most companies. I work with most companies a lot. Yeah. You know, as an employer, you do care about your employees. And you can use the term culture again, too, if that's part of the culture. Yes, that is part of your culture. Yes, it is. Yeah. And there's times where
36:38
you know, maybe somebody's got a technician coming to the house and they've got to do some work and, you know, those companies don't work after hours. And, you know, there's some value in being flexible, you know, so that your employees can get personal things done. You know, and there's PTO for that or there's, you know, other ways around that. But I think the message is, you know, work from home says what it says. You know, you have to work when you're at home.
37:08
It's not just additional days of PTO. So I think a lot of people got used to just being at home and being able to do those things and not having to account for it. And so yeah. They really did. And I think that unfortunately some ruined it for everybody. Some. My initial thought, looking back into that time period of the pandemic and
37:38
but just the massive amount of real estate that some of these companies have. Big, huge office buildings that are empty, and the values of those going down. so just the loss in assets from those people not being at work has got to be an impact as well. There's a couple of other things too. One is what I call compassion. Compassion should always be a part of what you do, but
38:07
I tell colleagues, I have colleagues, I have taught 2,000 HR professionals who are now in companies all over the country. And as you know, I am a teacher first, but I'm a mentor forever. And so they want to talk about those kinds of things. And I've often said when they don't want to go back to the office, because HR people say they too can
38:37
work from home, and I said, I'm going to tell you, there's a downside. If I can't see you, I don't think about you. Out of sight, out of mind, really is important if you plan to grow with that company. Because if people can't see how great you are, that's too bad. There are those who are great they can see.
39:06
and they can't see you, I'm sorry. So we that's a great point. If we can't see how great you are, we don't think about you. On the other hand, rep groups tend to be small.
39:25
in relative terms when we're talking about, know, Bosch and Siemens, your rep groups are small, right? Yeah. A small group of people who know each other. They want to be helpful. During the last 30 days, one of the principles of a rep group that's one of my CPMR wants to allow an employee to work from home. They just
39:54
recently insisted that everybody come to work, everybody. And he now says, how can I undo that? And I said, what do you need to undo? I need to have an employee work from home. She does inside sales. I need her to work from home. Why? Because she has pancreatic cancer and she's taking treatments and she needs to be at home when she takes these treatments because she doesn't feel well.
40:23
And she can still work, but she has to go for her chemo. And she's sick after chemo, and I want to be sure she has a job, and I don't want her to lose her income. And she's valuable to us. She's been here for eight years or whatever. And I thought, okay. And then we talked about the problems of discrimination, of course. The first thing you have to look at, discrimination.
40:52
Why are you making this exception? And if you want to give her an alternative work schedule, that's what that is, by the way. She gets an alternative work schedule. And it involves, it's temporary. It has boundaries.
41:10
It has a look back period that we can look back and make sure it's working for us so that we can cancel it at any time. And it is because of illness. So it has become an accommodation under the Americans with disabilities. All of those things have to be considered. Now, what I do, which is the smartest thing we do and you do, salespeople do, we always want to know what are
41:39
our customer wants the outcome to be. We always find out, what's this customer looking for? What do they want the outcome? Then we back into what we're going to sell them. I say to my executive, my principal, what do you want the outcome to be? I want her to be able to stay at home, take her treatment, have an income, and be able to work because she's valuable.
42:08
Okay, we can make that happen. We just have to make it happen within the employment regulations. So how often a scenario like that, and that's obviously honorable and great intentions, take that same scenario and tell me how it could go wrong for that same employer if you didn't do the right thing. So you take an honorable thing, trying to do the right thing, and
42:37
And how do you accidentally make an HR mess out of that same scenario by doing it wrong? Well, in this case, we're not going to have a long-term issue because our prognosis is so poor, unfortunately. In most cases, the prognosis is not poor. It has to do with a mom that...
43:00
in San Jose, California, needed to go early because she is not well and the baby's going to be born and she needs bed rest and so they do it. And she has the baby and then she says she has postpartum depression and she actually moved 150 miles away to be close to her mother and then she can't come back because she has.
43:28
emotional problems related to being separated from the child. And now they're saying you have to come back to work. And she sues them for discrimination based on disability. And she then says that they told her to quote, take her time and come back when she feels like it. And she doesn't feel like it. I had the exact same thing down in.
43:55
Montecito, California, where they told the customer service manager, know, yes, customer service, you can come back when you feel like it, okay? So eight months later, after his knee was replaced, he still doesn't feel like it. And so how it goes wrong is, first we have to make sure we do it according to the...
44:23
Regulations, which could be the family medical leave, could be the Americans with disabilities, could be the civil rights law. We just have to plug all those in. Next, it has to be in writing.
44:39
And it has to specifically say that it is temporary. See, it needs boundaries. It says it starts on this day and it ends on this day. And we evaluate it every now and then. And then, so we have a person who has done this and there's been this informal, love you, Judy, you go do whatever you need to do. And four months later, it's like Nancy.
45:06
get me out of this. I don't even know what to say. And she says that she's not going to give me a doctor's statement because she knows her rights. See, if you don't have any requirements, if you didn't have any paperwork, or if you don't memorialize those kind of things with records, we have a hard time helping you because the employee says they promised me.
45:34
Well, they say, I have an oral contract. Oh, jeez, here we go. So we try to make sure we get those things all nailed down, even though it is somebody they love very much and they don't want to have to do this. I tell them, you don't know Uncle George. They go, what? You don't know Uncle George.
46:03
Uncle George is the guy that's sitting across the table at Thanksgiving saying, they did what to you? Oh, well, you can sue them. I'm going to give you the name of the best lawyer in town. That's Uncle George. Yeah. You know, there's one in every family. How do you, you know, kind of back to, you know, hiring, firing, things, you know, it seems like sometimes
46:31
Employers are afraid to get rid of you know, if you you have the wrong person on the bus, let's say But you're you know afraid to get rid of somebody because of you know a lawsuit or whatever How important is it to do that the right way and what are the right steps, you know if you do need to let someone go once again, you raise very critical issues and issues I deal with every
47:01
day, every day. So I only have to draw on three o'clock yesterday afternoon to answer your question. The employee is former Navy veteran. The employee came into HR to ask for time off he had not earned. He had used up all of his PTO.
47:30
The benefits person said to him he didn't have any available hours and she regrets that they could not give him paid time off. And he becomes enraged and she who is seven months pregnant
47:53
was obviously anxious about his pounding on the desk. And she said, you need to leave now. And he said, you need to control your female hormones. Pregnancy has caused you to be some kind of nut cake. She begins to cry. So now I've got the principal on the phone.
48:21
What are we going to do about this? Well, if we did what we want to do about that, we would take hold of his collar and take him to the door and say, have a nice life. We're not going to do that. We can't do that. He is already being treated for PTSD. We know that he has a known mental health problem.
48:50
That does not negate that he has discriminated against our female employee who is seven months pregnant and she is so emotionally undone that her spouse came for her.
49:05
We need to get him out of that workplace. And we need to get him out of there that he does not hurt someone. So my thought always.
49:20
We need to get him out of that workplace. No one gets hurt. No one gets killed. No one gets sued. We need him to go home. We can deal with him better when he's at home. They want to fire him. They want to be in his face. No, we can't do that. You can do that.
49:49
but I don't want to have to deal with your family when he hurts you. So, cool heads have to prevail and I'm a cool head. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to send him home. We're going to put him on administrative leave.
50:13
Did I say suspension? No, I didn't say that, did I? No. Suspension is a word that triggers anger. We're going to put him on administrative leave without pay, pending an investigation. Our manager is going to help make sure he gets anything he needs from his workplace. And we're going to tell him, we'll call him tomorrow.
50:43
We need time. We need time. When we don't need, when we don't know what else to do, we go to sleep at home. Because we need time. Okay? We're going to put him in timeout. That's what we're doing. Now we're going to get a plan. That plan is going to be something that will reduce the probability that he's going to hurt someone. Since he's already told us he has PTSD.
51:12
and he's being treated by the Veterans Administration. We're going to tell him that he must take his job description and our letter that we're going to send him to his VA counselor and get a complete release that he is mentally and emotionally released to return to full-time work.
51:40
That covers our disability issue. It also says, we recognize that you have a physical or mental health problem and you need to take care of that. I said to that principal and their HR person, we're going to treat this like a broken leg. This person has a disability and he acted out.
52:09
because of his disability. So first we need to know if he is able to work. And we're not going to make that call. We're going to let this third party medical person do that. If that medical person says no, he is not able, then we will put him on family and medical leave or whatever leave is available and he cannot come back to work until we have a release. When he returns to work,
52:39
then we're going to make a decision, if he does, about what we are going to, what problem we're going to, how we're going to resolve the outburst. We'll deal with that when the time comes. In the meantime, we're going to deal with this as a disability. He's going to resist and say, I'm not going. Then we have to tell him we're sorry. He can't come back to work until he does. But we still have to go take care of the woman.
53:08
That's the easy one. We're going to give her time off with pay to give her an opportunity to rest and to tell us when she feels like coming back to work and if she needs extended time off and her doctor says that's a good idea, then she'll bring us that doctor's statement. So we'll deal with her by making it easy for her to have time away from the office.
53:35
He's our You're still going to document and have terms of that agreement also, correct? Absolutely. Yeah. We're going to take care of her because we don't want a discrimination case. We're going to take care of him and we're going to make his issue someone else's decision. Yeah. So that if they say he needs mental health treatment, all we then say is we are so sorry. We are so sorry, but you can't come back to work until your doctor says so.
54:04
Where we have big problems is when our own leaders jump in and say and do things that incites anger. And then there's retribution. Lawsuits, other employee work stoppages, violence, sabotage. They call OSHA and say we're putting chemicals down the drain.
54:34
They call the National Labor Relations Board and say their employees are being intimidated. It just goes on and on and on. So I say, chill, take a breath. Yeah. Calm our heads, prevail. That's one thing I've really learned from Marla. She's really good at taking a breath, pausing, thinking things over, and creating that space so you do react.
55:02
you know, in the proper way. So that's, I'm more of a knee jerk kind of guy. So that's something that I recognize and realize that I've got to work She's a president because she has been able to engage in something we call self-discipline. Yep, for sure. So based on all of those factors, what is the true value of HR? HR will bring the
55:32
important considerations before you make a decision. The compliance that principals, senior executives don't have time for. They don't have time to sit around and read regulations. They depend on a subject matter person, and that's what HR people, HR people are their subject matter person that says, have to think about this and this and this. They will help with the plan.
56:01
Policy and procedures are in their blood, that's what they do. And then they will help script that outcome so that people say the right things and do the right things and that they don't say the wrong things that will cause them to have big legal problems. So having that subject matter expert somewhere along the way, either internal or external.
56:30
is absolutely essential to make sure no one gets hurt, no one gets killed, no one gets sued. And the employee is always able to keep their dignity.
56:48
Well said. Well said. know, we got to wrap this up. You know, Nancy, I can't thank you enough for coming on and being with us. You know, we appreciate everything you've done with us over the last 14 years, everything you've done for, you know, the CPMR. You're just an absolute rock star, and we just love that you're part of our business and help us as much as you do, so.
57:17
Thank you so much. And we're gonna definitely have to do this again. This is what I do. This is what my life is about. I've never had a job in my life. This is what I do. It's my life. And my goal is that all of you are a success. Now you can be a...
57:43
complete failure if you want to go kicking and screaming it's okay with me, but my goal is that you're a success and I take great pride in pointing out that's my client. So give us one tidbit. You know, have a chance to mentor some folks. You know, what advice do you give give folks then? You know, what's the best way to be successful?
58:10
It's very interesting when you talk about mentoring because a CEO asked me to please, please, please mentor their new president. And I said, no, thank you. I don't want to do that. And he said, oh, come on, why? And I said, his eyes are two closed together.
58:26
And he said, what? said, his eyes are too close together. I did this, I'm in charge of that. These are my people, that's my warehouse manager. Those are my drivers, eyes and miser. And I thought, it violates one of the principles of success. I said earlier, if you really want to do well, do what you love to do, do that. Go find your passion, do it, it'll work out. I don't care what it looks like on the front end, it'll work out.
58:56
And get good before you try to look good. You have to know what you're talking about because people will have confidence in you if you are competent. When they see you're competent, it will build their confidence in you and it will build your self-confidence. You also have to, what I say is, polish your diamond. Polish your own diamond.
59:27
Continue to take courses, to continue to learn things. Whatever it is, learn about those things that will be useful to you in your relationships and in your work. If you don't stay up with the technology, then you can't expect the company to see you as a person who is flexible and always learning.
59:54
And unfortunately, it'll affect your career. Get rid of I and my. know, I, I, I. We today in 2025, we're part of a team. We are we and us and our. And those are critical when we hear people talk. They'll tell us. They'll tell us who they are. And they'll tell us about themselves. That's a little tidbit, by the way, for hiring.
01:00:22
listen to their past. Develop that bench strings. Develop a bench of talented people who make you look good and don't forget to do what I call, your tank. Go take some time off. Be sure you take a vacation. Be sure you have a hobby. Be sure you have something that gives you an opportunity to exhale now and then.
01:00:50
so that you don't become so obsessed with success that it cannot find you. You will never find success, by the way. If you just go do those things you love to do and you do them well and you make sure you are competent, success will find you. You can't hide. Look at every hugely successful person in the world. They can't hide.
01:01:19
people will come looking for you when you're really good. And thank God you all have come looking for me all these years. I am so grateful. I am so grateful that those in my age group are retired and saying, why are you doing that? I said, doing what? Working. Oh, I'm not working. I'm just living, you know? I've got this very big circle of wonderful people like you and these
01:01:48
fabulous companies like CBM. And I'm just a cheerleader. I'm sitting around applauding and every now and then you need me to come out there and play on the court and I change my uniform into a consult and do that. But I always wish you well. I'm sure you know that. wish you I am so grateful you asked me to visit with you today. Oh, it's been my pleasure for sure. So thank you. Thank you so very much.
01:02:18
Come back and visit with me in my office anytime.
01:02:25
Thanks again to Nancy Combs for joining us on the podcast today. I can't say enough good things about her and how much she's helped us here at CBM over the years. We're really grateful to have been able to work with her all these years. So thanks again, Nancy. Remember, if you need help with a project or looking for representation from an excellent force here in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. You can find us right here at cbmrep.com.
01:02:52
Thanks again for joining us on Power of the Network. Please like, share, subscribe, drop us a comment, let us know what you'd like to see. And thanks for joining us. Until next time, we'll see you next time.
