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Hi, welcome to Power of the Network. I'm your host, Tim Locker, Vice President of Broadband here at CBM. This week we've got a special treat. I always enjoy the opportunity to bring on customers and highlight relationships and this week is no different. So we've got Mr. Mitch Bailey, uh CEO of GRM Networks, uh or also formerly Grand River Mutual Telephone Company. As long as I've been here the last 18 years, Grand River has been... uh
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a key account for us, uh one of the first relationships I ever developed coming here at CBM and been a long standing relationship and just absolutely thrilled to be able to highlight that today.
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Thank you for joining us today. It's great to have you down here on the show with us. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you. I was excited to be here. Good, good. uh Independent telcos, they've been the backbone of rural communications for decades. uh Companies like Grand River Mutual, Telephone, uh from your perspective, what is it that makes companies like Grand River Mutual uh stand out from their competition these days?
01:13
You know, I think what an appropriate time to have this particular conversation. So this year is the 75th anniversary for Grand River Mutual Telephone. ah We now go by GRM Networks. And so as we have kicked off the year with 75 years ah in the rearview mirror looking to celebrate the next number of years looking forward, we've really...
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I think asked ourselves a lot of this exact question, just principally, what makes us different, especially in an environment where there is so much more in the way of competition these days, specifically in broadband than what there once used to be. But, uh you know, as we have kind of embarked on what is going to be, you know, our year of celebrating 75 years, uh
02:09
I think we've really focused in on the key core components that I think that we find to be those differentiators. I foundationally, we are a cooperative. And so I think that is a real differentiator in a lot of ways, just because at the heart of everything we do are those cooperative principles where we're looking at our customers, not as just a revenue source, but
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as member owners of everything that it is that we do. And when we decide to do something, whether that's related to service or pricing or just the way that we go about doing what we do, mean, it's always with those customers in mind. as an anchor institution within the community, so much of what we do is not just
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you know, the service that we provide, but the relationships that we build within the communities and how we support some of those other missions within, you know, each of our communities and how we can, you know, support economic development and all of these things that I think, you know, when you look at providers who are exclusively looking at, you know, service to the customer, especially, you know,
03:32
in terms of revenue, I think that is a big differentiator. We're a cooperative, we're built on those principles that are really built around playing the customer first and making sure that the customer's experience uh is top of mind in everything that we do. We talk about ourselves, we're an ESOP, we're an employee-owned company, and so we talk about that a lot
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for us and how we operate. And it allows us the ability to be a little bit different, you know. But yeah, that's one of the things I'm glad you brought up, because I want to touch on that co-op aspect of it, you know. You know, in rural America, I'm, you know, rural, lot of your towns are, you know, uh a couple thousand folks or way less. um I uh mean, you've got banks, you've got schools, you've got the phone companies. There's not a lot of other
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know, industry across, know, or probably you're a farmer, right? uh And so, like you mentioned, those institutions really are the backbone of the community. ah You know, so when you compare to schools or banks, but you know, the phone company really does have a unique position to be able to do things for the community. So, like, what types of things do you do? How do you target?
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because you've got such a broad range of territory, how do you target those uh different events or different ideas and how do you, ah I guess, prioritize what you do for the different, because I assume they all need something different. They do. They do. And that's a great question and that's something that, honestly, we always kind of wrestle with a little bit because we...
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We operate in our cooperative area about 4,500 square miles across Northern Missouri and Southern Iowa. And every one of those cooperative members is the same to us. That's just because you live in a slightly larger community doesn't make you more important than somebody that lives in a lesser populated community. And so as we look at fielding donation requests, looking at supporting economic development in some of these areas,
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you know, we always try to do it through an equal lens for all of our communities, which can make things difficult at times because we want to support everybody equally. ah And sometimes those, you know, needs are different in different communities. And so we do, um we support the community in lot of ways. I mean, just some of those as an example, we do scholarships that promote, em
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you know, secondary education for kids that are graduating high school. We do a lot of uh internships um or job shadowing for some of those, you know, who are trying to decide what field of interest that they may have and which, you know, they may look to pursue. uh We also do uh community improvement grants to allow opportunities for some of these.
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organizations throughout our area to come up with some additional capital funding to fund some of their missions and the projects that they're looking to achieve. um We also work closely with several of the uh economic development associations within the various counties. And we have one of those with whom we uh have an economic development opportunity fund, which is a
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revolving loan fund, essentially to try to help foster uh economic development through low cost loans to just support exactly that. mean, to just help spur innovation and creativity and economic development in some of these areas. And so I think those are the most direct to community things that we do. I think you look at just the way that
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our employees are so involved and integrated with the associations or community organizations throughout all of the communities where we live and work. And I think that probably is impactful in a way that is equal to or greater than some of the financial contributions that we do just because we've got... uh
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Like I said, we live in those areas, we work in those areas, and so um we work alongside many of these people who are trying to achieve the same things that we as an organization and we, a lot of us individually are looking to achieve too. Yeah. No, you've got a lot of great folks and being, mean, like you said, they all live within the communities and work within the communities. I mean, you guys are really the backbone of a lot of that area.
08:39
It's commendable. Competition-wise, what does that look like in that rural part of your network? uh I assume you have a pretty high take rate from that area, from your customers. We do. I would say we certainly see more competition on probably the voice side, surprisingly, than what we do on the broadband side. The voice side, you have a lot of
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companies who are looking for a solution that they may have different branches across different areas, some of which we don't serve. And so they're looking for a single solution to do all of that. And I think that's where we've seen a lot more competition. In the way of broadband, there is still the introduction of new competition, new competitors. We do have some areas that we've long seen.
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certain competitors. And I think that um is maybe less so since we completed all of our fiber build throughout all of the communities. mean, a lot of those that had previously, we'd seen a lot of competition were more from providers who were similar to us at the time, had a lot of copper facilities. And so it really came down to
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what that particular customer was feeling in that moment. um so I think since we had completed all of our projects, upgrading everything from copper infrastructure to fiber infrastructure, I think you still see some competition in the way of wireless providers or uh satellite providers. And ah I think what those customers
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quickly realize is that uh depending on their needs, that those solutions aren't as reliable or as robust as fiber infrastructure. That's one thing I was going to ask. You uh kind of got ahead of the curve really in terms of fiber deployment. So do you really think the satellite or the wireless is going to long term have that much of an impact on you guys?
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You know, I would say that there is value in wireless and satellite in areas. I think just looking at the geography and the topography of our areas, I don't think that that's one where wireless and satellite, you know, really makes the most sense long term. think, you know, fortunately, we live in an area where the geography is pretty conducive to buried fiber infrastructure, which is
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the most reliable. uh I mean, with either of those technologies, there are still parts of that network that have, you know, that are made up of fiber. mean, typically the backhaul for your wireless transport and even your satellite are still made up of fiber. And I think we live in an area where fiber is just the obvious answer for the long term. uh Talk about, you know, we're seeing a lot of uh
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A lot of companies are being bought up. A lot of these little telcos are being bought up by, whether it's investment firms or whatever. uh How do you operate differently than say an investor owned telco? In same space, but how do you guys operate differently? Because what I see is, we've worked with you guys, I mean, for years, ever since I've been here. uh
12:23
And it always seems to be a priority of doing the right thing. Building your construction as quality as you can, trying to get stuff to last for the long term. How do you compare? What's that look like differently for? Well, I mean, first I'll give credit to those before me who really were visionaries in the way of trying to anticipate what that next
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type of technology was going to look like or what bandwidth consumption was going to do over the course of time. And I think that has really put us in a position of strength. mean, both the management teams, our board of directors, think, trying to be very mindful of doing things the right way. And again, I think everything that we do ties back to being a cooperative. And I think part of that was
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you know, we consider ourselves uh a fiduciary of, you know, these cooperative assets. And so making sure that we are responsible in how we administer or how we utilize the funds to, you know, ultimately bring back the best service to our customers, but not, you know, at the expense of waste. And so I think when we started
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specifically looking at fiber construction back in 2009. Dirk was in a position where he was looking at how best to architect this network and the best way to achieve this for the long haul. And so there was a lot of consideration put into how to go about that to withstand the increase in broadband adoption. And I think that has really helped us.
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in a lot of ways. mean, of course, there have been some other things along the way, uh regulatory changes and obligations and things that uh have helped support the high cost nature of our area. And so those have been helpful. I mean, just when I think of what has helped us also just remain strongly positioned for the future, it's
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At the same time that we were trying to be mindful of how best to architect the network and considerations for all of that, we also tried to be mindful of just the nature and lack of guarantee of high cost funding in our areas. And so we tried to make sure all along the way that we had an appropriate amount of diversification as an organization.
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so that as there were changes in the regulatory landscape, as there were changes in universal service contributions, um that we were able to accommodate those changes and withstand the impact of those on our organization so that we at least would have time to kind of reposition ourselves and figure out the next step forward. I think all of those things, just being mindful of how we're utilizing those dollars, but also
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trying to make sure that we have an appropriate amount of diversification so that we can, you know, it allows us time to pivot throughout those changes. You know, in terms of that diversification, you you guys have moved up north and you've got the new company, MyFiber there, you know, in the Des Moines area. What year was that when you took on that venture? So we started MyFiber in 2017. was, there had certainly been some work.
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Going on 10 years. Yeah, yeah. There'd been some work leading up to that. And again, that too came from a place of, specifically at the time, uh we were faced with making some decisions as it related to universal service and um the contributions that we were receiving and changes on a regulatory landscape. so what were... m
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you know, as we were evaluating those decisions, one of the things that, you know, became obvious to us was, you know, a uh concentration in universal service funds and needing to find a way to replace that in the face of, you know, discussion on and into universal service support. we had spent, you know, a while evaluating some different opportunities and ultimately landed on
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what was first concentrated in Waukee, Iowa. uh so, I mean, the logic there, I think, is as simple as that where we had traditionally, you know, focused in our cooperative footprint that is, you know, maybe sparsely populated in a lot of areas, uh taking the same know-how, the same experience that we had and taking that to
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a more densely populated area where instead of three customers per mile, there were 3,000 customers per mile. to try to capitalize on the subscriber take rate and just the availability of subscribers to help bring back some of that money to the cooperative to subsidize what had historically been universal service.
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We started that in 2017. We learned a lot along the way and just maybe more than anything how different an urban landscape is to a rural landscape. are some of the biggest lessons you've learned? You know, just how much people care about their yards, I think is one of those things. think, you know, when we...
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A lot of what we do in the rural area in terms of construction is, you know, we'll plow the main line, we'll plow drops to people's houses and, you know, the people around, you know, rural Missouri, rural Iowa, they don't care a lot. I mean, they may care some, but generally, you know, not anything that can't be overcome. uh man, you know, in urban areas, you've got
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underground dog fences and sprinkler systems and a lot more particularity about the upkeep of the yards. And that was one of those things that, uh I mean, as funny as that seems, that was one of the first things that we learned of just being mindful of people's yards and all of the obstacles that they have within their yards. Yeah, I know that can certainly be a challenge. I just happened to catch a video last night where it was
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wasting my time scrolling, but that's what you do. ah But there was a guy trying to get, was maybe 10 feet between the two houses and he needed to get a skid loader uh into the backyard and the neighbor is standing in his way like, you're not driving on mine. But that's the kind of stuff you deal with. You're right. I mean, because a lot of times the private utility easement is there between um two people's backyards. And so you're trying to navigate.
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through privacy fences or whatever other things that they have. yeah, nobody likes think a lot of people don't understand those easements either. Just because you mow it doesn't mean you necessarily own it. yeah. Yeah, that can be a challenge. ah So that's been a big area of growth for you guys. ah Is that the next wave of growth or what's in the future for GRM? Well, you know, we...
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We have certainly grown a lot up in that area and we continue to evaluate opportunities that exist there. I mean, we have conversations on a regular basis of new development areas, new pieces of the city that is annexed into the city. And so we're constantly evaluating opportunities that are adjacent to the infrastructure that we've already built. ah think that's one of the main differences, going back to like, uh
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know, a cooperative versus maybe a investor-owned company, you know, you're still looking uh localized where you have, where you can impact those people within your network versus maybe going to, you know, four states away just because there's a hot area. So it's a different look at, you know, that customer base than just a profit center. It is, it is. you know, I would say, you know, the same
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is true for our cooperative area as well or the rural market that we serve too. I mean, in the way of Next Steps, not just in the MyFiber urban area, um our employees um in the course of just living their lives will hear from people in adjacent areas that, oh man, I'd really love it if GRM served our area. And so we constantly explore what are the economics of
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pursuing this area, the funding programs throughout the last several years have really helped us explore some of those. we've received, well, we had received a ReConnect grant here a couple of years ago that was really the first opportunity to kind of expand to an adjacent market outside of our cooperative footprint in the rural.
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the rural area. so I think it's just with that same mindset, just looking at opportunities where they exist and evaluating that. And, you know, honestly, we would always, you know, we as a management team would evaluate some of these opportunities just because there was funding available. And then, you know, when we were successful, I was hopeful that we would have as much excitement, you know, from some of the other employees.
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And I would say, you know, there was almost more enthusiasm from some of our technicians than what there was from the management team simply because, you know, they are out there in the community and they'll, you know, eat lunch at the cafe and run into people from an adjacent community and say, ah man, when are you going to come to our area? And so I think this has really been a way that they can, you know, now in some areas turn around and say, well, you know, soon, soon, we're coming soon. And so we're excited for that.
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CBM is a manufacturer's rep based right here in Kansas City. We've got territory where we cover from Iowa all the way down to Texas. We cover specifically three different market segments, uh utility, commercial industrial, and broadband communications. CBM is structured differently. We're an employee-owned company. We're ran as an ESOP. That allows us to do business differently. We can cross...
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lines of markets, we can put our people where they need to be and really have expertise in the right place. That's what makes a difference uh for our customers and for our manufacturers. If you think we can help you uh with the product line in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. Find us right here at cbmrep.com.
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Yeah, as a matter of fact, I saw one of your guys at the Toot Toot last night. Oh, On my way down, I stopped and had dinner there. So yeah, they're definitely part of the community. Yeah, yeah. Sure. uh Let's talk a little bit more about you. uh You came up through the financial side of things, so in accounting, correct? Yeah, yeah. Talk about how you transitioned from, you know, coming up through accounting into, you know, the leadership role that you're in now. Sure. So yeah, I started
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uh with GRM about 12 years ago. And I started as the accounting supervisor. I had previously come from banking. so, know, I, accounting and finance, you know, was really strong in that area. And so started there. it was, you know, it was interesting to me at the time. I know someone said when I first started, you know, give it about two years and that's what it takes to learn.
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you know, all of the lingo and all of the peculiarities to the telecom space. I was like, they're, you know, they're just exaggerating that. Like, that's not true. And it was, I mean, it takes some time just with all of the acronyms. And I'm sure that's true in any industry. We tell our sales folks the same thing, you know, two to three years to really develop a territory, regardless if you've been in the industry or not. It just takes that. There's a learning curve there. I mean, just, you know, and
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Coming from banking where numbers were numbers were numbers, mean, you know, on the accounting side, numbers are still numbers, but, you know, there is um there is a lot of regulation, especially at the time that went into, you know, accounting and reporting and just the way that that has to be done from a regulatory perspective. But then, you you had not just numbers, but how numbers intersect with
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technology and what are all of these pieces of equipment that we're buying and what's the use of those things. Why do need all of this? And so then you have conversations with others that are, here's why we need these things. all the meanwhile using all of these acronyms that you do or don't understand and constantly trying to figure out what these mean. um
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So, yeah, I I spent a good amount of time in various roles in accounting before ultimately, you know, adding the regulatory component uh to my role as well. And so before moving into this position, I was responsible for uh all of the accounting and finance and regulatory aspects of our organizations. And so I do think, uh you know, just again,
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kind of naturally through some of those conversations in trying to make sure that you're getting the numbers correct, having a lot of those conversations with the other parts of the organization of what does this piece do and why do we do this? And then, you know, running through the financial scenarios of, you know, moving into this market or doing this thing. I mean, you get a lot of exposure if, you know, if you're willing to explore that uh through those
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know, conversations and relationships with other people in the organization that I think really helped me build, you know, a more comprehensive foundation for, you know, how all of these pieces come together to be, you know, at least for us to be GRM networks or to be any particular company. And so I think that, you know, that really helped position me to move into my role now.
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especially at a time where there was so much, you know, focused on regulatory impact of certain changes or, you know, for us specifically, the financial implications of this decision versus this decision and how all that comes together, I think it created a good opportunity for me to move into this role. Well, and you look at, you know, I kind of look at it from kind of a two-sided coin, I guess, if you will, because you've got, let's say the numbers are, you know, the inside.
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you know, with all your construction and your techs and that, you know, is outside. Yeah. You know, and you really have to have a level head on both parts of that. You do. You know, because it's easy for, and maybe it's easy for a tech to say, well, gosh, I need this tool or, you know, this plow or whatever. But without the understanding of the numbers, you can't necessarily make that decision. But on the flip side, you know, if they come to you and say, hey, I need a new drill rig,
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and you don't understand what they're doing, then you've got to understand both sides of that. So I can see how that took a while to learn both sides of that to understand how it all comes together. did. And even when I first transitioned into this role, and probably still at times now, am surrounded by a
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of people who are experts in what it is that they're doing. I mean, they are the best for their role. And so, I rely on them a lot to help piece all of this together because from a financial perspective, I can look at this and I say, this costs a lot of money or do we really need this thing? um
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And we've got a lot of folks that really, I mean, they bring, just like you say, that technical knowledge to the table to really be able to articulate, are the implications of this, here are the options that exist, and the financials that support each of these options, and then we kind of collectively evaluate those to make the best decision. But you're right.
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everybody and this comprehensive knowledge aggregated together to really formulate what is the best decision strategically. uh Moving up usually creates a challenge in, you know, letting go. Yeah. Have you seen that as well? Do you struggle with trying to keep your fingers out of, you know, somebody's obviously replaced you on the accounting side, right? Right. You've obviously got your finger on the pulse, but
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Have you had a, has that been a challenge kind of letting go of what you did versus what you need to do? You know, um it was absolutely a challenge. I mean, I would say that, you know, when I was in um doing the accounting and the finance and the regulatory, I mean, I think I was in a position where I was able to do all of those things and have
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complete control over all of those things and see that those things were being done exactly the way that I would want them to be done. And uh as I moved into this role, I just had to quickly accept that that was not achievable. For my health or for anybody else's, uh I had to be more focused on the bigger picture and the strategic trajectory than I was.
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how we were accomplishing each task that led to the outcome that we were looking to achieve. And so, yeah, I mean, it was not something that I had mastered before moving into this role and probably something that I continue to work on on a regular basis. But yeah, I I think it is exactly, you know, as you describe of a challenge of not getting in people's way to do the job that they're tasked and empowered to do. You know, I want...
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our management team to feel like they have the ability to make those decisions and have autonomy within their areas. um All the meanwhile, us working together for the common goal of whatever that may be in the particular case. m yeah, I mean just. uh that's a good way to put it, being the roadblock. So many times, I mean, if something's sitting in your inbox for two weeks, because you haven't.
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You've got so much you're trying to get done and you don't get to it. That's, you know, that can, I've seen that happen so many times and that can be a burden to your people as well. What's maybe the biggest lesson in leadership that you've learned so far? Man, you know, I think it probably relates exactly to just that. And I think, you know, I have always wanted
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to consider myself, you know, leading alongside people, you know, not directing people on what to do and how to do it. you know, I mean, obviously in this conversation, I can reflect back on times where I probably didn't achieve that as successfully as I would have liked to have thought. You know, I think I was focused on, you know, the way that we do this thing right is to do this thing, you know, my way.
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there are many different ways to achieve the same thing. And I think that was one of the lessons that I had learned. And just like, if you empower people to do something, then they feel more accountable to what it is that they're trying to do. And so they don't feel like they are just a gear in this big mechanism. They feel like they are helping to drive
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what it is that we're looking to achieve. And I think that, from my perspective, is probably one of the things that I have learned most is wanting to be there, be a resource to help. I never want anyone to feel like they aren't adequately equipped to do what they're tasked with doing, but um I want to make sure that they feel that they have the...
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autonomy or that they are empowered to do that thing without, you know, feeling like they need to check in with me every step of the way. Yeah. People don't want to be told what to do. They want to be part of it. Yeah. And if every time somebody makes a decision, they've got to come ask for permission, then yeah, they don't have that uh ability. oh How do you stay in front of, you you want your people to be prepared?
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for anything that comes. How do you stay in front of that, whether it's training or providing X type of information, how do you see the challenges coming and prepare people before it's an issue? I mean, I think the short answer is going to be just communication, both directions. mean, think we, um so our management team, we have quarterly staff meetings and
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I would say once upon a time maybe those were intended to be as much for my benefit, just to make sure that we were all gathered together. ah And I could get updates on where we were with specific projects. And I think over the course of time, those have turned to where, ah or at least I hope so, that they are as much a benefit to our employees as they are to me in those conversations.
35:58
I use that as an opportunity to kind of convey here is where we are in relation to what I think we collectively determined to be our strategic vision. And there's a lot of conversations that we have with our board on a regular basis just to make sure that we feel like we're on a solid trajectory for where we want to be. then on a quarterly basis, have a lot of
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a lot of good conversation with our management team about where we are on that trajectory and the steps that we need to take to make sure that we continue to be there. then just regular communication outside of in between those quarterly meetings just to make sure that we are constantly checking in as new funding opportunities arise that align with um some of those initiatives.
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and that we're properly evaluating all of those opportunities that exist. So speaking of funding, I didn't see your name on the bead list. uh Is there a reason behind that? Is it just frankly because you're so far built out in your network or? Well, it depends on which bead list that you look at because um we actually have been provisionally awarded
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uh award in each Missouri and Iowa. So. Okay, good. Well, I must have missed it. That's okay. That's okay. I, you know, I think that funding or that program, uh as, as I'm sure everyone is aware, you know, it's worth three years. We're three years in and it's been a challenge with twist and turn every step along the way. uh You know, and so operating in two states.
37:53
Each state, the program is administered by the state. So it's federal dollars running through each state. So each state has the ability to kind of customize or tailor their program so that it's administered the way that they feel like it needs to be, which I think is a good way to go about it because who knows the state better from uh a landscape perspective? Who knows the state better than the state?
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the providers within each state. But what that meant for us is that the Missouri program looked different than the Iowa program in terms of timelines and requirements and the application criteria. And so there were a lot of differences between the two. uh We had started with the Missouri round that I guess it'd be a year ago.
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about now and working through what was then, you know, round one and sub round one and round two, which, you know, then was all kind of retracted and redone after the restructuring order came uh last summer. And so turned around and basically did all of that again. And so I think, you know, from a public notice perspective, I mean, I think maybe we're just now getting to a point where
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the states are prepared to start releasing uh those awards as they had been provisionally awarded. Well, let's hope. Let's hope. Let's hope. Yeah. I mean, you really had to learn two different systems and then relearn two different systems all in the past few years. Well, I hope it works out. There's a lot of money that's supposedly going to be dumped into our industry, and really for good reason. uh
39:44
Sometimes I think it's hard to see in our neck of the woods because the independents have done such a great job getting fiber out. uh I live in the Huxley Telecom in Slater in their network and Slater was the first town in the state to have fiber back in, it like 2000 or 2001. So what's the big deal, right? We've had fiber forever. So it's kind of a little bit of a different landscape, but you go to Sheraton.
40:14
you know, in an old wind stream town. And there's a lot of people around there that would love to have fiber. So, you know, it's just kind of a different environment. I think we're kind of spoiled here locally. Well, and, you know, we have a funny story on that just as we were kind of working our way through kind of the introductory phases in our urban market up with our MyFiber operation. uh
40:44
I think we had crossed paths with someone along the way who was commenting on, couldn't believe that they bought this house in urban Iowa and it didn't have fiber internet. It's not like I live in Lamoni, Iowa. The ironic thing was we serve Lamoni, Iowa and it had been fiber for a long time. I mean, exactly like what you described because as those independent telcos,
41:13
do so well, our focus was right there within our communities and building up the infrastructure for those areas. And so it was just funny and ironic as we were having the conversation and some of the most urban parts of Iowa that their service was not superior to what we had in the rural parts. A friend of mine just bought a cabin down just north of Derby right on
41:42
Oh yeah. On 65 there. uh his power went out. This was just last fall, power or winter. Power went out. It was that first snowstorm, I think in early December. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Power went out and he noticed because of his cameras. And so he couldn't get, he's got an app to run his thermostat. So he's worried about it was getting cold if the furnace was keeping up or whatever. And so a friend of mine that I used to work with, uh
42:10
back in the days when I was in McLeod, he lives just down the road. I called Bud, shout out to Bud. So uh he did a trouble call for you actually. he ran down to the cabin and went in the basement and uh he's certainly well qualified and he ran through and reset the whole deal and got the internet back up and running for him so his cameras would work and make sure his heat was on.
42:35
Well, we thank Bud for that. Got a free trouble call for you there. And Bud's one those guys. He lives like three miles, three, four miles north where he's on an old uh gravel road, wind stream route, and he's got nothing. But yeah, it's just funny. You think about where that fiber actually is. We've done a lot of work with some folks out in Western Nebraska. And they did.
43:04
the rural with fiber first because at the time they could still get the speeds they needed in town on the copper. But they couldn't get it that far when the ranches are 20, 30, 40 miles outside of town. oh a lot of that was kind of backwards in the mindset where they did all the rural folks before then coming back and doing the actual towns. But is the story at
43:33
you know, exactly why we have continued to explore these adjacent areas in our rural market because, you know, like it seems obvious, you know, to us when we look at our regulatory obligations and our service area boundaries, you know, study area codes as they call them. And, you know, we understand that this line is right here, but
44:01
I mean, you go out there and you look at the actual landscape of the environment and there's nothing that makes sense as to why, you when these areas were drawn that this is here. And so then, you you get a bud who is just right up the road and he's like, well, why can't I have your service? And so it's a lot of these people, you know, within the community that keep us motivated to try to fill in those areas. They're still lacking sufficient service. How difficult is it to cross those lines? So like,
44:30
I mean, back in the day, you had your service area, and now people are jumping all over, but how difficult is it if, whether it's a county line or just a road or whatever, but if you decide, hey, I want to build fiber to bud, can you do it? You can. mean, there are a lot of considerations that have to be taken into account. And I would say,
44:59
those considerations even still are made simpler if you're looking specifically at the broadband side of things. uh When you get into the voice side, I mean, it can still be done, but you've got tariffs or service catalogs or additional regulatory obligations that relate to providing voice service in those areas and how all of those calls are routed from a switching perspective. And so, I mean, it's still achievable, I think,
45:28
just with... And you've obviously got to get a financial plan together. You do. Does it make sense to go serve Bud? Right. Whereas if he's in your co-op, you have to serve Bud because he's one of the members. Well, and I would say that is certainly the approach that we've taken. if you are, to the comment I made earlier, if you're a cooperative member that lives within our area, you are equal to any other cooperative member.
45:56
And some of that has changed along the way just because of universal service changes and their model approach to universal service support, of which we are a recipient. so just the way that those calculations have changed, we were easily able to kind of make that kind of uniform
46:26
policy that just, you know, all cooperative members are equal and we will apply it to them all the same. But then you get into those considerations for those who are outside of your area. And, you know, in a lot of cases, you're not receiving any support for those. Maybe there's a funding program that will help with the initial capital infrastructure and the capex costs for those. But then, you you've got the ongoing maintenance and support that are associated with that.
46:54
Yeah, I mean all of those relate back to the economics of you know any opportunity that exists But are you are you able to grow the co-op or is it a defined territory? That can't be changed. So the according to our bylaws um the Cooperative is defined um as our state-certificated boundaries, so essentially it's the
47:24
Grand River Mutual Telephone Corporation, its study area. Now, I mean, you could always change bylaws to allow for, you know, the absorption of cooperative members in some of the areas outside of, you know, those study area. But, you know, like anything, it can be done. It just maybe wouldn't be... And I don't know if it makes sense. Easily I'm just curious. I didn't know if that was a flexible...
47:53
boundary, if you will. So, well, Mitch, you know, I can't thank you enough for coming down and joining us today, driving in this morning. know, CBM and GRM have had a relationship, you know, even since before I've got here. And, uh you know, you guys are really one of our core customers and it really shows what the value of, you know, relationships can do and just the level of trust that we have between our two organizations. And I just can't thank you enough for joining us.
48:21
Yeah, well, no, I appreciate it. And I think you're right. And, you know, truly, I think that's one of the things that I appreciate so much about this industry is that, you know, probably similar with other industries. I just think that relationships are at the core of so much of, you know, what we all do. And I know that was, you know, one of those things that I really benefited from, you know, your relationship with.
48:47
Dirk and others on our team and just really being able to utilize those to help achieve our strategic mission as we were trying to achieve things along the way. And so I am equally grateful for that relationship and all of those relationships throughout the industry. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you.
49:13
Just wanted to say thanks again to Mitch for joining us, uh taking the time to drive down and be in studio with us today. We really appreciate that. And thank you so much for everything that we've been able to accomplish together over the last 20 years. uh Your relationship and your company means a lot to us. Remember, if you need help on a project or looking for representation here in the Midwest, look no further than CBM. You can find us right here at cbmrep.com.
49:41
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